craigslist | politics in west chicagoland

bpllingbrook (dupage)

2008-07-25T08:49:44-05:00

please email me Ballerinaragdolls@comcast.net

Campaign for Liberty- Geneva, IL Meetup (Geneva, IL)

2008-07-22T13:28:56-05:00

Campaign for Liberty- Geneva, IL

A book club focused on the study of American politics today and how it relates to the average American citizen. We will begin with Ron Paul's bestseller "The Revolution: A Manifesto".

Campaign for Liberty- Geneva, IL Meetup
Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 7:00PM

From 7-7:30 we will meet and greet
From 7:30-8:30 we will discuss/read The Revolution: A Manifesto by Ron Paul.
From 8:30-9:00 we will have time for comments and wrap up.

Refreshments provided, but guests can bring their own beer or wine.

I have ordered twenty copies of The Revolution: A Manifesto, so do not worry if you do not own it.

Ron Paul told us to have fun, and we hope to have a good time.

See the full event details, including location, at http://youtube.meetup.com/3/calendar/8389775/.

Re: We murdered God.....what now (St. Charles)

2008-07-20T03:02:29-05:00

Hopefully it's apparent to you that the earlier rude, insulting and vulgar response to your last post was not me. That's not how I roll... yo. :-)

For the records, yeah, you're right. I'm on the complete opposite side of the fence as you and am under no delusion that I'm gonna change your mind (or you, mine). It has been entertaining the past few day and I respect your opinions and position. Thanks for the diversion.

In regards to how giraffes may have evolved their long necks, I think you're missing the point of how natural selection works.

When a genetic variance (mutation) occurs, the ability of that trait to help the plant or animal to survive is dictated by its actual survival (survival of the fittest). The following is an example of what /might/ have occurred. I don't think we have enough evidence to pinpoint the precise reasons or sequence in the case of our gangly, spotted friend...

In the case of the giraffe, perhaps it was competing with not only all the other giraffes, but gazelle and wildebeest, etc for access to those leaves it loves so very, very much (and needs to survive, more importantly). Children with longer necks (probably by centimeters over several generations) were more likely to reach leaves others couldn't. They were healthier and could out run their non-pencil-necked brothers and survived when the lionesses descended on the herd. This way the long-necked gene survived and prospered.

Perhaps you can help clarify one aspect of your position for me. Please explain why there are all the diverse fossil records that there are, with a very organized (from a biological and geological perspective) progression from only a few of the most simplest life forms in the earliest fossils to a diverse range of complex (as well as simple) life forms in the current era.

You seem to completely reject the idea of Intelligent Design. Why is that?

You said... "This country was founded on Christian beliefs."... more Christian /Values/, really. We were founded with freedom of religion and separation of church and state for a reason. History has shown and continues to demonstrate that when theistic religions and governments are combined things become very volatile. Christian, Muslim and Jewish controlled states have consistently been and continue to be some of the most violent.

You said... "How much more crime was there back then......or even just 50 years ago. A LOT less."... I'm not 100% sure I buy that, but I don't know if we really have reliable data to back it up either way. 50 years ago, sure, but not 250.

You said... "Our countries moral structure is fading every minute."... Wow... we agree on something. Of course I don't equate morality with religion... religion just very helpful to influence it.

You said... "Yep, let's go ahead and get rid of God totally. That will help."... No, let's not. I think religion plays a very critical role in society as a morality regulator.

Re: We murdered God.....what now (Plano)

2008-07-18T19:46:17-05:00

Christianity and creation go hand in hand. I have enjoyed our conversation and I respect that you apparently are completely on the other side of the fence from me but people who claim to believe in an Almighty Creator of everything you and I know and see are playing both sides of the fence by siding with the evolution theory. My Lord and Savior is solely responsible for all forms of life. This miraculous earth and its beauty DID NOT happen out of some cosmic goo by pure chance.

If you think I should read a biased "scientific" report stating that transitional forms have been found in the fossil record, then how about you read some of the things that leading creation scientists say to refute them.

Back to the giraffe. Please give me an accurate description. I mean without all the mumbo jumbo wrapped up in there, the description I gave pretty much summed it up. Did those mother giraffes tell their offspring to really start stretching their necks all day, every day for hundreds of thousands of years and they slowly grew and developed special valves in that long neck so that their hearts wouldn't explode while pumping the blood up so high?

Well, I guess I can actually see your point a bit about the shrinkage of the sun. Unless, for as long as they have been measuring it, it has been shrinking from year to year and the same rate. Reverse the math of the shrinkage and multiply that to a couple million or billion years and your left with no earth.

Analytical thinking is one thing, over thinking is quite another. I already said that "I'm not talking about things in everyday life. Things that leaders in an industry or field of study improve on. Of course I know that improvements are being made to things everyday."

Just because Darwin found some mysterious island that had wildlife that he had never seen before, doesn't mean that BAM it's gotta be evolution. Just for fun let's go ahead and say that it was though. Did Darwin or anyone see it happen? NO. It's a theory, not fact. That is primarily my point, two theories, what's the harm in teaching them both and letting the individual decide.
This country was founded on Christian beliefs. How much more crime was there back then......or even just 50 years ago. A LOT less. How much more abortion....hardly any. Yea, I guess I do agree, we are evolving. Into a country that has no time for God. Our countries moral structure is fading every minute. Yep, let's go ahead and get rid of God totally. That will help. If the past 50 years haven't shown people how down hill we are going, then your either blind or flat out in denial

Hey, feel free to hit me back, it's been really good talking to you for the last couple days

Plano

Re: We murdered God........what now? (St. Charles)

2008-07-18T13:01:09-05:00

Man... if you wouldn't leave yourself so open like this, I'd drop it, but...

Plano - "like the good old giraffe who one day decided that the leaves at the top of the tree looked a lot better so he started stretching his neck to be able to reach. Then hundreds of thousands of years later BAM, his neck was ten times longer. UUUUMMMM I don't think so."

Of course you don't. You're a creationist that doesn't believe in evolution. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Opinion doesn't change reality. Beside that, your illustration a poor and inaccurate description of how evolution is understood to occur.

Plano - "There have never been (and in Creationists opinion) nor will there ever be a transitional form of life found in the fossil record. I wonder why????"

My guess is that you wonder why because you haven't been reading any of the scientific reports regarding the fact that fossil records of /numerous/ evolutionary transitional forms /have/ been uncovered that chronicle most major transitions.

Plano - "Scientists can measure the shrinking of the sun each year: FACT. Based on that alone, this planet we call Earth wouldn't even be here because it would have burned into nothing if things are millions and billions of years old."

You assume rate of shrinking is constant and that it has always shrunk. Invalid assumption. Invalid conclusion. The statement "based on that alone" would cause any scientist to either cringe or laugh hysterically.

Regarding Darwin's family's motivations... you are making a wild accusation based on no credible evidence. I merely pointed out that the most credible sources, eye-witnesses, refute your 3rd-party, hearsay-based claim.

What floors me is that you "Creationism Means No Evolution" types can't embrace new scientific understandings and developments... unless they work for you, personally. Silly little things, like computers, the Internet, electricity and medical science. You shouldn't believe in those, either, as they're based on the same analytical thinking that allows us to better understand natural history, in the form of evolution.

Evolution is /not/ inherently atheistic. Sometimes I think some religious types run away from evolution merely because they can't stand the thought of agreeing with an atheist about ANYTHING. Fortunately many others are quite so narrow-minded.